Westsail Owners Alliance - Thread: "Engine Bay Makeover - Rewiring - Including Engine Removal!"
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Thread: "Engine Bay Makeover - Rewiring - Including Engine Removal!"

12,268 posts on 2,444 threads   •   From Mar 07, 2004 - Jan 08, 2012

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Engine Bay Makeover - Rewiring - Including Engine Removal!


Aaron Norlund

Hi all,

My father and I started our battle to have a sane electrical system aboard our W32 yesterday. We're planning to install a new DC panel, all new wiring (everywhere), new T-105 batts, alternator/regulator, high amp battery charger, battery monitor and that's about enough.

Seeing as our engines make it impossible to service the after bulkhead, we opted to pull the engine. It needs sandblasted, painted, and all new sensors anyway (and a new instrument cluster). Those're just excuses though, really I just want it out of the way. While we're in deconstruct mode, we're going to pull our fuel tanks and give them a good cleaning - (and I want to get behind them to mount some cleats...muahah).

After it's all out, I'm going to spend some with with epoxy filling in random bolt holes and sealing the wood bulkhead (which seems in iffy shape...hope we don't have to pull THAT out!), then repaint it all and have that done. Not to mention the electric stuff.

QUESTION!

Since I have a waterlift muffler, do I have to have the galvanized loop? Can't I just drop straight to the waterlift box (with a vented loop, of course), and on up to the exhaust thru-hull?

The old instrument cluster!


Engine, looking down from deck.


Looking forward from after end of engine bay.


Stbd, looking forward from after end of engine bay. The small red dacron line made off around the motor mount/sea cock is the battery tie down. It was made off through a hole in the main bulkhead, to a wrench acting as a mooring bar...


Back of distribution panel.


Looking forward from after end of engine bay at stbd side of aft bulkhead.


Shows the cluster of insanity we're up against. The previous owner said "it's like a spastic spider got loose in there" - roight, that is.


Stay tuned - I'll post more as we progress.

Fair leads,
Aaron N.


Aaron Norlund

Oh, I don't know what I did wrong!

AGAIN:

Hi all,

My father and I started our battle to have a sane electrical system aboard our W32 yesterday. We're planning to install a new DC panel, all new wiring (everywhere), new T-105 batts, alternator/regulator, high amp battery charger, battery monitor and that's about enough.

Seeing as our engines make it impossible to service the after bulkhead, we opted to pull the engine. It needs sandblasted, painted, and all new sensors anyway (and a new instrument cluster). Those're just excuses though, really I just want it out of the way. While we're in deconstruct mode, we're going to pull our fuel tanks and give them a good cleaning - (and I want to get behind them to mount some cleats...muahah).

After it's all out, I'm going to spend some with with epoxy filling in random bolt holes and sealing the wood bulkhead (which seems in iffy shape...hope we don't have to pull THAT out!), then repaint it all and have that done. Not to mention the electric stuff.

QUESTION!

Since I have a waterlift muffler, do I have to have the galvanized loop? Can't I just drop straight to the waterlift box (with a vented loop, of course), and on up to the exhaust thru-hull?

The old instrument cluster!
The old instrument cluster.

Engine, looking down from deck.
Engine

Looking forward from after end of engine bay.
crazy bay

Stbd, looking forward from after end of engine bay. The small red dacron line made off around the motor mount/sea cock is the battery tie down. It was made off through a hole in the main bulkhead, to a wrench acting as a mooring bar...
genius battery hold down

Back of distribution panel.
dist panel

Looking forward from after end of engine bay at stbd side of aft bulkhead.
wiring

Shows the cluster of insanity we're up against. The previous owner said "it's like a spastic spider got loose in there" - roight, that is.
cluster beep

Engine free!
engine free

Me guiding the engine over to the dock. No, that's not my gut.
me

Stay tuned - I'll post more as we progress.

Fair leads,
Aaron N.


Bud Taplin
(Member)

Aaron,

Check out Page F-8 of my Westsail Service Manual for suggestions on exhaust systems.

Also, install the new electrical panel on a board with a hinge on the bottom so it folds down on top of the navigation desk and you can get to the entire backside.


Jeff Matthiae

Aaron,

I think your talking about that loop made up of various pipe fittings. That would be your mixing elbow which is the point were water gets injected into your hot exhaust gases. It needs to be metal so it doesn't melt. If I remember right my hose that injects the water has a vented loop in it before it goes to the mixing elbow.

BTW I think it was you who had asked about pictures of my bowsprit. I've been sidetracked a bit lately but should be getting everything back together after the holidays so I'll take a picture and post then.

Jeff


Norm Rhines

Big project Aarron

Some suggestions.
1.) If you sand blast the engine put a rag in all openings before taping them off with duct tape {oil, intake, water, etc etc (don't forget the breather on transmission and dip stick. ( the rags catch some of the grit that gets by the tape)

2.) Yanmar makes a 180deg injection ell which works pretty good and makes two less threaded conn.

as for the lift I have mine right behind the Port aft motor mount and I have use only 2 of the four bolt holes to hold it in place this location puts it out of the way for most operations and has never given me trouble.

Also on your back motor mounts you might want to follow Buds write up on stiffing the back of the engine pan.

as for the tanks good luck, this is a no fun project.

Lastly the instrument panel works good if you cover your instruments with a portlite installed from the outside. this keeps them dry and mostly clean and all you need to do to get access to them is open the portl.

Good luck:
Norm


Aaron Norlund

Thanks for the tips.

Here are pictures as of today:

Clean engine bay - looking down from deck. Lots of holes to patch!
Engine Bay looking down

Engine bay looking aft. Wires to be rerun, wood to seal, holes to fill, blah blah.
engine bay aft

Where port fuel tank sits. From after end of engine bay, looking forward to port.
port tank

Where starboard fuel tank sits. From where the engine normally sits - looking outboard to starboard.
sbd tank

Where the old panels were. Look at all those damn holes! UGH.
nav panel

Opposite side of nav panels - looking from engine bay forward.
nav panel from engine

We're leaning toward organizing our panels like so.
panels

Fuel tanks
fuel tanks

Perkins before sandblasting
perkins before
perkins before 2

And being sandblasted
sandblasting

Whalla - twenty minutes of sipping on a Blue Moon later and the engine is ready to paint!
sandblasted

With the fuel tanks, engine, and a few miles of wire out of the stern, she looks ready to take a nose dive!
nosedive

Oh work, how I love ye!

Fair lead and merry christmas!

Aaron N.
____________


Dave Kall
(Member)

Do yourself a big favor. Replace the engine mount feets. In my reaseach the rubber goes bad and you'll have the engine running much smoother with new feet. Now you have an excellent opportunity, and easy to get at !


Aaron Norlund

Already have em sitting in parts box! They were terrible!

Fair leads,
Aaron N.


Danny Rummans

Merry Xmas, we have the same full engine room liner, I have hull #730. Bud sent me a picture showing an installation on the port side inside that tall box structure just port of the shaft. In your pictures it is the area, looking aft, that you have about a four inch square hole cut in. It requires you to cut a suitable size hole in that self to access the void underneath. I did a repower and went back with a perkins 4-108 and it turned out to be a very suitable location. It is low enough that the muffler is below the exhaust elbow.


Aaron Norlund

Hi all!

Does anyone have pictures of waterlift muffler installations in their W32? As you can see above, mine was mounted right above the prop packing, but I don't like it there and would like to see ways others have mounted theirs.

Thanks for your time and Merry Christmas!

Aaron N.



Aaron Norlund

Hi all,

We've been having loads of fun! I promise I'll post more pictures in a few days. We've got the engine painted and are waiting on a few gaskets to come in to finish that bit up. The engine bay has been patched and I followed Bud's engine bay liner stiffening trick (pretty quick and easy).

This evening we decided to go gunghoe on this and pull the water tanks to clean and paint the bilge/tanks. I noticed a couple 1/4x20 size bronze bolts coming through, which I'm assuming hold a dynaplate on. This got me to thinking - HEY, I should install a ground plane for a future SSB while I have everything torn apart! I'm also bonding the rig while I have access and am in wiring mode.

I haven't read much about SSB stuff since I don't have the money for one now, so I don't know much about setting up the ground plane. Could someone suggest a method for getting it set up? I've read it's good to hook up to your fuel tanks and water tanks, and that it is not necessary to actually use a thru-hull.

Also, I'd appreciate a bit of help with my bonding and AC grounding system. I was planning to run 8awg wire to connect each chainplate, back to a bus bar, then tie it into my DC ground bar.

My AC system wasn't attached to a thru-hull, so I was thinking I'd connect to one of my scupper seacocks and use it as my ground? Just to make sure, all of my DC stuff eventually makes it back to a single heavy duty bus bar which is attached to my engine block. Then I'll have a separate bus bar to which my AC circuit is grounded, then I connect the AC and DC ground bars? And I have a cable attached to a thru-hull and back to the AC ground bar? Or do I have to connect all of my thru-hulls with wire, then to the AC neg bar?

Oh, I'm confused and Calder seems to baffle me more every time I open the book!

Thanks for your time!
Aaron Norlund


Jeff Matthiae

Aaron,

I was going to suggest the SSCA site but saw that you were already there. I've been trying to figure out the same thing as I'd like to install a ground plane before putting everything back together. I had originally planned to glass in some copper screening but have since decided against that.

What I plan to do is based on Bill Trayfors setup. When I finally get around to installing the insulation in my bulwarks I'm also going to install PVC piping with messenger lines. Then I'll have an easy way to install radials when I get a SSB instead of the more common ground planes. I'll also make up dipoles for the bands I find myself using the most.

Jeff


Michael Dougan

Hey Aaron, this is great stuff. It would make for a really good article in a future Windblown.

When (if) you find the time, it would be really cool if you could pick just a few of your best before and after shots, then write up a page or two about what you encountered in your project (what went pretty easily, what surprised you), any advice you might give someone going along the same path. Then send that off to Jeff and Wendy at the address listed at the bottom of the home page.

That is, of course, if or when you get the time and inspiration to do so... sounds like you're pretty busy!

Great Job!


Aaron Norlund

Hey all,

I promise we're doing work! We're almost done with the engine bay - in fact, we'd planned on putting the engine in last weekend but, with our rendezvous going flat, we're going to take some more time. I promise I'll post more pictures of the boat!

But to tide you all over, here's our new electric panel (though it's not quite done yet.) It's being made by Mobile Marine Electronics (www.wewireboats.com).

Electric Panel

Fair leads,
Aaron N.


George and Rayna Shaunfield

Say, Aaron,

That is a sharp looking electrical panel. Fancy with name and boat profile to boot.

My restoration is moving much slower than yours. I have spent the last 10 days trying to get specs to figure out how to deal with a bell housing on my "new" used Kubota engine that is too wide for the engine stringers. It is easy to see why some people avoid the hassle and just buy a new engine.

Keep up the good work on Asia Marie. You are moving along smartly.
George


Bud Taplin
(Member)

George, Contact me directly at btaplin@westsail.com and I may be able to help you with installation information. After all, I have installed about 35 of these Beta engines in Westsail 32's, and I have solved most of the installation problems.


Aaron Norlund

Bud,

If ya want, come on out and install one of those shiny new Betas in our boat. Free of charge would be best

Fair leads,
Aaron N.


Aaron Norlund

Hey all, here are some more pictures; to keep load times and bandwidth down on the board, use this link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24463470@N07/page2/

This sort of explains the whole process though:


Fair leads!
Aaron N.


Aaron Norlund

Hey all, here are some more pictures; to keep load times and bandwidth down on the board, use this link:

Photo Album of Rewiring

This sort of explains the whole process though:
In the hanging locker

Fair leads!
Aaron N.


Mike McCoy

"The small red dacron line made off around the motor mount/sea cock is the battery tie down. It was made off through a hole in the main bulkhead, to a wrench acting as a mooring bar"

That is just plain scary!


Aaron Norlund

Hey all,

I haven't added many pictures, but I did organize them into a bit more logical sequence. They're kind of "before/after" now.

Asia Marie Rewiring on Flickr

Haven't made much progress over the past couple of months as I've been too busy at school to make it back home. Done for the semester though and we should be able to finish entirely (vroom vroom engine and all!) within the next couple weeks.

Fair leads,
Aaron N.


Aaron Norlund

Hello all!

WE'RE FINISHED! At least with the wiring.

To see pictures of my panel, from concept to install, plus the cold cathode lights I made, click the following:
Panel/CCFLs

To view all of the pictures I've taken so far, in somewhat of a "before/after" for, click the following:
Rewiring/Engine Bay Refurb

We're not done, but the engine is aligned, coupled and bolted down. Just have to get a new muffler (Top in/top out) as I can't find a place I like for my current side-in, side-out. Once we get everything in there done, we're going to do another coat of paint to hide all of our install scratches. Then I'll post pictures of that!

Hope everyone is swell. We're excited to be nearing a point where we can use our boat!

Fruity oranges,
Aaron N.


Jay Bietz

Aaron:

Very nice work -- Love the photos and looking forware to the engine shots.

Jay


Tom Crank

Aaron,

I hope you don't consider this question rude, but could you tell me what you paid for your custom panel?


Aaron Norlund

Tom,

$960 including shipping. It was fully assembled and wired as a unit. The total cost of the Blue Seas System's panels I planned to use was ~$800, and they would have been four separate panels. I would have had to make some larger panel to put them in, then wire them all together, then wire them into the boat.

So while it was expensive, the ~$175 more we paid for panel was worth it for it being exactly as we wanted, with more possibility of expansion, and being ready to install.

Plus, Mark at MMES, who is an ABYC certified tech, was an extremely valuable source of electrical knowledge. We are very pleased with his service, product, and the way the panel looks in the boat. It will be great when we redo the counters with solid-surface (Corian type stuff.) I highly suggest working with MMES to get a panel.

This is a photo as the panel looks now. Next time I'm out there, I'll shoot a more organized shot. the random wire is to a new depth transducer - we were trying to find a good place for it in the hull and hadn't run the wire yet.

panelnow

Happy turkey day!
Aaron N.


Andrea and Brad Dollins

WOW!! Great work! love the custom panel and lights, and you just gotta love those scummy
bilges, LOL! been there done that! keep up the
good work. Hope you get on the water soon.

Happy Sailing
Andrea


Aaron Norlund

Andrea,

Thanks for the compliments!

The lovely thing is - the boat is in the water and together. We can user her whenever we don't want to work on it! We try to do as much as possible with the boat in for this reason.

Cheers,
Aaron N.


Don Montgomery and Lana Nelson

Aaron,
After my rewire, new tank and engine work I can really appreciate the work you have accomplished. Nice job Cap'n!
Don and Lana


Tom Crank

I particularly like the rotary swith for the nav lights. No possibility of having 2 conflicting light patterns illuminated and it frees up 3 precious breakers.


Aaron Norlund

Don,

Thanks! I've only been home twice this semester, so we're not making much progress right now. We hope to get a bunch done over Christmas (maybe new boomkin, bowsprit, handrails, repaint the deck, and modify the lazarette hatch to be flush-mount...if we can squeeze it all in!)

Tom,

We like the rotary. It's powered off a "Nav Light" toggle breaker. In hindsight, we could have used a push-reset breaker, but we have plenty of space. Also, the boat graphic has LEDs in the appropriate places that show what lights are on (and they're even sectored). This is handy as you can turn it on in the dark and see exactly what's lit/what people are seeing.

We could have had resistance-sensing that would ring a bell a light bulb is burnt out, but we have LED nav lights, so it would've been a waste of money.

Cheers!
Aaron N.


Aaron Norlund

Jay and all,

I've just added pictures as the boat is now, including shots of the engine installation and bilge/water tank. We have yet to put a final coat of paint to cover all the scratches incurred while installing the engine, but we're busy with other stuff!

Asia Marie - Rewiring, Engine Reinstall

Cheers,
Aaron N.


Jay Bietz

Aaron:

Thanks for the great photo's of your work... Looks good to me. I don't understand the rigging in the engine room though from the engine mount?

Yesterday I started the removal of my engine -- I'll start a seperate thread but here is a link to some photo's.
http://picasaweb.google.com/jaybietz/RepowerPygmalion#

Thanks again for the photo's.
Jay


Aaron Norlund

Jay,

The tackle is what I've decided to use to hold my cockpit sole down. We use to have a hole for a hinged hatch, but I filled that back in and bedded a backing plate and nuts for the lifting eye in the hatch so no bolts come through. Now instead of having ten bolts to take out, we just have to open the engine bay from inside and slack the tackle, then pull the quick release pelican clip off the hatch and we can life it free.

It is the easiest way I've heard of to keep the sole down and unless that engine breaks free, it's not going anywhere!

Have fun with the repower. Good opportunity to make stuff pretty!

Cheers,
Aaron N.


Tom Crank

Aaron,

Did you find MME a bit slow to work with? They seem like great guys but they have been working on a quote and layout for me and they average 5 to 7 days to respond to each email. They are probably busy on more lucrative projects than mine. I was just curious was your experience was.


Aaron Norlund

Tom,

Mark, owner of MMES, usually got back to me within the day, including weekends. A couple of times, like when he was working up the CAD drawings, it took a day or two longer than he had guessed. I did not have any seven day response delays.

I suggest you call him if you need things - we conversed via email and phone often. But he nearly always answers his cell phone.

What're you having done?

Cheers,
Aaron N.


Chris L

Aaron beautiful work dude. I'm the same way I can't stand a clutterd dirty engine room but man does it look good, sure must have been tough with the wiring boy I'd be pulling my hair LOL

Chris


Tom Crank

Aaron,

He is quoting a smaller panel then yours with battery management, a rotary nav light switch, and 16 dc breakers. Given your experience I'm sure his slow response is a combination of the season and perhaps some bigger projects he is working on.


Aaron Norlund

Tom,

We could have had our panel made in a smaller area - we had the boat with indicators put in there just to take up space. This allowed us to use the entire area that was beside the old panel, to put all of the electrical stuff (charger, bus bars, terminal blocks, fuses, etc.) behind the new one.

It seems likely that Mark is out sailing and gobbling ham or something.

Cheers!
Aaron N.


Tom Crank

Aaron,

can you explain how the wiring is run to the Steaming and Lower Sailing positions on your nav light switch. I assume the bow and stern lights are illuminated by "Lower Sailing" and your steaming light, bow, and stern lights are illuminated by the "Steaming" position. For the life of me I can't visualize the wire runs which would make this possible. My nav lights will be on breakers and the only way I can envision making this work is to turn on both the steaming and lower nav light switches when under power.


Aaron Norlund

Tom,

I power a rotary switch with one switch-style breaker. When on "lower sailing" the rotary switch sends power to the bow lights and stern light only. When on "steaming", it sends power to the bow, stern and mid-mast "steaming" light. If you are choosing to use breakers for each (but why? - just power a row of toggles with one breaker...), then you can set it up to be done in four switches.

Tricolor - Send power to the "tricolor" location on the terminal block.
Deck Nav - Send power to bow, stern
Steaming - Send power to steaming light
Anchor - Give the anchor light power

With these four, you can show deck-level sailing (deck nav), and motoring (deck nav+steaming). I highly suggest the single breaker/rotary method though; it eliminates the guesswork for people who don't know what needs to be on. You can just say "turn it to lower sailing".

You can even use a push-button style breaker for your nav lights, have have an "off" position on the rotary. Then people only have to turn the knob - no turning the "nav lights" switch on.

Let me know if this isn't clear!

Cheers,
Aaron N.



Greg and Christy Johnson

Does anyone have any pictures of the installation of port or starboard fuel tanks. My tank was home done out of fiberglass and was jury rigged in place so now I want to install new tanks but I really would like to see some examples first Thanks


Don Montgomery and Lana Nelson

Hi Greg and Christy,

We have a few photos here,,, http://www.captainmontgomery.com/2008/10/one-list-is-complete.html You may also email me or call me if you have questions. It was a great learning process.

Don and Lana


Greg and Christy Johnson

Don and Lana -- Thanks for the pictures. I had wondered if I could just build a shelf for the tanks this will make it easier.


Bud Taplin
(Member)

Greg, I remembered that there was a sketch of the plywood fuel tank shelves in the original W32 construction manual, before Westsail went to making a fiberglass liner for the engine compartment. I have sent you the sketch by email attachment.


Bud Taplin
(Member)

Greg, I tried sending you the email of the sketches by clicking on your name on your message, but the email would not go through. Evidently you have changed your email address from the one on this bulletin board. Send me your correct address, and I will resend the email with the sketches.


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